Episode 001 - Mo Nofal

This inteview took place at Mo’s home, in Sydney, NSW, on the 6th of October, 2024.

Ahmed: Please state your name for the record.

Mo: Mahmoud Nofal.

Ahmed: Where are you originally from and where did you move from to Australia?

Mo: I moved from Cairo, Egypt back in 2015, around June.

Ahmed: How old were you back then?

Mo: I was 33 years old then.

Ahmed: Why did you leave Egypt?

Mo: Mainly my social life, and lifestyle. My way of living is quite different from most Egyptians, and people around me. For example, I am always punctual, most of my Egyptian friends aren’t (laughs).

Ahmed: Back when you decided to move, were you surrounded by a circle of friends, etc..?

Mo: Yes, that was the case. And I am still in touch with most of them.

Ahmed: Were you born in Egypt?

Mo: Yes.

Ahmed: And where did you spend your childhood?

Mo: I travelled a lot growing up with my parents. My father was in the diplomatic circle and as a result he travelled a lot for work, and he took his family along with him.

A big chunk of my childhood was spent around Africa. But my high school and university years were spent in Egypt.

Ahmed: Since you were 14 or 15, you were in Egypt, up until your early 30s.

Mo: Yes.

Ahmed: Before immigrating to Australia, did you travel to Australia before?

Mo: While applying for immigration, I came for a short vacation back in 2013/2014, but in 2015 is when I immigrated.

Ahmed: Why Australia?

Mo: Well, when I was young, I watched a movie called ‘Crocodile Dundee’ (laughs). Since then, as I love animals, and nature, and especially crocodiles and sharks, that’s why coming to Australia was very attractive.

Ahmed: And when you first came here, did it feel like what you had expected?

Mo: Initially, I thought it was what I expected it to be.

Ahmed: So, what do you like the most about Australia and being here?

Mo: Nature. There are not a lot of places you could be where the ocean is 20 meters away from your home. Nature here is gorgeous.

Ahmed: What else?

Mo: The bush, mountains, deserts, etc… there are so many varieties of things to experience and see here, especially all year round.

Ahmed: As for immigration, and leaving your home country, what was and is the experience like, especially compared to just traveling somewhere. What do you feel about it?

Mo: The hardest part is to leave my family behind. That was hard then and is still very hard now. I care about them a lot, worry about them and want to see them frequently.

But I have never felt like I belonged to a place or country. I really love traveling, as well as due to my father’s job, we were always traveling and moving, and so I am used to change, whether it’s where I am, or people around me.

Ahmed: What was the thing you’ve found the most unusual after moving here, good or bad?

Mo: The thing that I was surprised by is that I’ve come across a lot of people who aren’t really that open minded to the world outside. I’ve come across a significant number of people who are closed off from the world outside Australia, not interested in other countries, other nationalities, and have a very narrow view of others built only through the media and the news, and that they are not interested to learn about.

Ahmed: In addition to being away from your family, what else have you found hard or has been a struggle since you’ve immigrated here?

Mo: Finding work. My expectations were that due to the size of the country and the lower population, that there would be many opportunities, but have discovered that that was not the case. There are not a lot of opportunities for work.

Ahmed: What do you miss the most about your home country?

Mo: As I mentioned, being close to my family. Another matter is that I miss being geographically located close to so many countries. Being in Australia, everywhere is so far.

Ahmed: What activities and rituals have you adopted after immigrating, to keep nostalgia at bay?

Mo: Cooking Egyptian food, which I really enjoy and have held onto. Staying connected to a few Egyptian friends (who have also moved to Australia). Those are a couple of things that have made me feel connected.

Ahmed: Compared to your expectations before moving, has your experience being in Australia turned out to be what you’ve imagined?

Mo: Not really. But, to be specific, it’s specifically finding work. If that gets better, life would be a lot easier. But it has been a big challenge. Otherwise, I love nature, and this is something I am really enjoying since I’ve moved here. It’s something I know I won’t easily find elsewhere.

Ahmed: How often do you visit Egypt?

Mo: Roughly once every two years.

Ahmed: Are you playing on staying in Australia for the long-term?

Mo: Not sure yet. My spouse and I are still discussing. We’ll certainly wait until she gets the Australian citizenship, then we’ll see what we’ll do next. Again, finding  work is a big challenge. I definitely don’t mind moving anywhere, as long as there will be a steady income coming in. Finding a job will possibly be the thing that will define whether we stay or more somewhere else.

Ahmed: Any other rituals that you’ve adopted other than Egyptian food and catch-ups with Egyptian friends?

Mo: Watching old Egyptian movies and Egyptian plays. The older stuff I enjoy, but not the newer stuff. Also being regularly in touch with my parents.

Ahmed: Does Australia feel like home?

Mo: No, not really.

Ahmed: Why not?

Mo: I don’t feel like locals are very accepting and welcoming for us to be an integrated part of the Australian society. For example, there is a place called the beach club that’s not that far from here and is meant as a local club for this area. Every time I go to visit, the minute I enter, all eyes are on me, possibly because I look different from everyone else, possibly because of the colour of my skin as a brown coloured person surrounded by white people. You can sense that they are surprised that there are ‘non-Australians’ around them.

Ahmed: So, what’s missing for Australia to feel like home?

Mo: I think it’s that social aspect that I’ve just mentioned. Unfortunately, not a lot of people seem to be accepting of my wife and my presence, not the same compared to Egypt, or Europe. Europe and the middle east, due to the high prevalence of tourism, people are used to being around and seeing those who look different than them, but here it doesn’t feel like Australia is on that same level yet.

Ahmed: Something you get asked a lot?

Mo: A lot of people expect me to be religious or a muslim.

Ahmed: Something you wish people would stop asking you?

Mo: Same. I wish people would stop asking me that question or assuming because I am Egyptian that I am muslim or religious.

Ahmed: Something you wish people would ask you more?

Mo: Conversations like one you and I are having right now, people being curious and inquisitive about me, like what my experience being here is like, rather than questions that seem accusatory or what seems to me like someone trying to find reasons to build a barrier between you and them. That I would truly wish would change. I’d rather be asked social, friendly, and genuinely inquisitive questions, questions that are inviting rather than building barriers, etc…

Ahmed: Favorite slang word?

Mo: ‘Yeah-Nah’ (Laughs).

Ahmed: If you had to do it all over again, what would you have done differently?

Mo: I would have been more patient with finding a job that would be more fitting to me before moving here, as in coming here for shorter visits and looking for work, then moving when I land a job that is more suitable for me. As moving to Australia and then looking for work has taken a major toll on me caused a lot of stress, especially when you have no one to support you, …

Ahmed: If you had to do it all over again, would you have still considered Australia for immigration?

Mo: Yes, definitely, it would have been Australia.

Ahmed: Advice you would give your younger self?

Mo: When I was 12 years old, I was living in Cameroon. One of my school colleagues stopped coming to school, and we weren’t sure why. A few days later, while walking near a forest, he popped up, looked at me and opened the palms of his hands to show a large number of diamonds, and asked me “Would you like some?”. I was only 12 years old then, and so wasn’t sure what to do, so I said ‘No’, as I was only interested in music and girls at the time. This guy today owns the fibre optic network connecting the whole of Cameroon and Nigeria.

What I would tell my younger self is to take some those diamonds, you idiot (laughs). My life would have been different.

Ahmed: Anything else you’d like to share.

Mo: I know I’ve shared a few negative things about being here, but the positives outweigh the negatives. Nature is gorgeous, not many places you could get in your car and drive in any direction you like, go camping, without being interrogated or harassed. I really appreciate that level of freedom.

I am truly always hoping for the best. I am only a few months away from being in Australia for a total of a decade, yet I haven’t given up on this dream.

Ahmed: Thank you